Thursday, February 7, 2013

AFSCME Union pushes ledge for TDCJ off duty carry bill

By Lance Lowery, For the Backgate Website 
 
AFSCME Texas Correctional Employees call on Texas Legislature for off duty carrying rights.  Three days ago a Kaufman County assistant DA was gunned down by suspected prison gang members.  The Assistant DA was investigating the Aryan Brotherhood of Texas.  Prison gangs are no laughing matter and they have targeted public officials, including correctional officers.
 
Officer Arthur Redelfs, a correctional officer with the El Paso County Sheriff, was killed by members of the Barrio Azteca prison gang after having a run in with gang members at work.  Redelfs was taking his his wife and two of her coworkers to lunch when the hit went down.  Redelfs' wife and her two coworkers worked for the US Consulate in Juarez.  This incident helped bring attention to the US Border and cartel issues.  Unfortunately not much attention was brought to the fact this was not a cartel hit, but was a hit by a Texas prison gang.
 
As public servants and one of the lowest paid law enforcement officials in this country, Texas correctional officer families should not have to incur the cost of concealed handgun license and training (estimated cost $350).   Even with the CHL some TDCJ wardens will not permit the storage of weapons in an officers vehicle at work, making the officers an easy target for gang members. These officials already carry weapons on duty, have all undergone the required criminal background check, and have been trained on lawfully discharging a firearm.  Its time Texas update their gun laws to recognize the carrying rights of their public officials who insure public safety. 
 
The bill would add the following under Penal Code Section 46.15 to allow of duty carry privileges;

"(10) an employee of the Texas Department of Criminal Justice who holds a certificate of proficiency issued by that agency."

Back the Bill....
 
 

51 comments:

  1. This bill would be great. Last week I ran into a ex offender at Walmart. Good thing he just said hi. What if something turned ugly.

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    1. I would hope I don't have to run into any ex offender, but yes good thing he just said hi.

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    2. Same thing happened to me, I unfortunately see them all over the place since I've worked corrections for meny years.

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    3. Same thing happened to me, I unfortunately see them all over the place since I've worked corrections for meny years.

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  2. If wardens are not allowing the storage of weapons at work they are committing the penal code violation of Official Oppression. It's a crime. Those who are victims of it should demand that the district attorney prosecute them for it. When the DA refuses, they should take a criminal complaint before the grand jury themselves and seek an indictment. Then they should sue the thuglovers in civil court.

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  3. i agree that we should beable to carry weapons to work and back home.... That is when its easy to spot us. not giving us a equal hand to defend are self.....

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  4. In texas you can carry a gun in your car without a concealed license. It is part of the caslte doctrine that was passed a few years ago.

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  5. Under the Texas penal code "prohibited place", a person is in violation if they carry a firearm on to grounds under control of the Texas Department of Criminal Justice. Under Texas Penal Code 46.15 you must be in compliance with agency policy to carry a firearm on TDCJ property. The agency policy allows each warden to decide who carries.

    Do not carry a gun in your vehicle unless you have written permission from the warden!!!!!! You can be criminally charged and fired for doing so, even with a CHL!!!!

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  6. Bullshit. Here's what the law really says:

    http://info.sos.state.tx.us/pls/pub/readtac$ext.TacPage?sl=R&app=9&p_dir=&p_rloc=&p_tloc=&p_ploc=&pg=1&p_tac=&ti=37&pt=6&ch=151&rl=21

    Texas Administrative Code

    TITLE 37 PUBLIC SAFETY AND CORRECTIONS
    PART 6 TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE
    CHAPTER 151 GENERAL PROVISIONS
    RULE §151.21 Weapons Policy
    (a) Policy.
    (1) The Texas Department of Criminal Justice (TDCJ or Agency) requires that all persons carrying a firearm shall unload and safely secure the firearm prior to entering a TDCJ correctional facility. For purposes of visiting a TDCJ correctional facility, a peace officer, a person licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Texas Government Code, or a person who is otherwise authorized to carry a deadly weapon shall unload and secure the weapon(s) in the locked trunk of a vehicle, or a locked compartment of a vehicle if the vehicle does not have a trunk, immediately upon parking or while stopped at the first security checkpoint, whichever occurs first. A peace officer may also store a weapon in any other TDCJ authorized location prior to entering the perimeter fence.
    (2) It is a felony under the Texas Penal Code:
    (A) To possess a deadly weapon while in a correctional facility, unless the person possessing the deadly weapon is a peace officer or is an officer or employee of the correctional facility authorized to possess the deadly weapon while on duty or traveling to or from the person's place of assignment;
    (B) To provide a deadly weapon to an offender in a correctional facility;
    (C) To possess or go with a firearm, illegal knife, club or other prohibited weapon, within 1,000 feet of a premise designated by the TDCJ as a place of execution under article 43.19, Texas Code of Criminal Procedure, on a day that a sentence of death is set to be imposed on the designated premises and the person received notice that:
    (i) Going within 1,000 feet of the premises with a weapon listed under this subsection was prohibited;
    (ii) Possessing a weapon listed under this subsection within 1,000 feet of the premises was prohibited; or
    (D) For a person licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Texas Government Code to carry a handgun on the premises of a correctional facility, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed.
    (3) Except as provided in subsection (c) of this rule, an employee of TDCJ is prohibited from carrying a firearm in a state-owned vehicle, on their person or in their personal vehicle while on duty. An employee who is licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Texas Government Code is subject to the statutes described in subsection (a)(2) of this rule and:
    (A) Is prohibited from carrying a handgun in a state-owned vehicle, on their person or in their personal vehicle while on duty;.....

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  7. Hey "Bullshit". Before you get someone fired or criminally prosecuted with bad advise, you might do some more research. TAC is NOT STATE LAW, its what it says it is "Administrative Code."

    Texas Penal Code Chapter 46 is being revised this session due to poor wording. Example below.

    Texas Penal Code

    "Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:" ...

    "(3) on the premises of a correctional facility;"

    This code needs to be revised.

    Fact: Officers with CHL's have been fired for having a gun in their vehicle without written permission from their warden.

    Better to be safe than fired... Get permission first, until the law changes... Texas gun laws were poorly written and that is why changes are being requested.

    Remember TAC is NOT STATE LAW.

    The Penal Code is.

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  8. 4:13 PM, "Premises" do not include parking lots. This has been clearly proven before, and is included in the definition portion of the section you quoted.

    Sec. 46.035: (3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

    FACT: officers have been fired for not standing up to TDCJ's repeated refusal to follow the law and/or their own rules.

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  9. PC §46.035(3) “Premises” means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

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  10. CONROE, TX (KTRK) -- A man has shot and killed himself inside a Walmart in Conroe.


    It happened just before 4:30pm

    Police say a 35-year-old man entered the store, walked to the pharmacy area and sat down on the bench. Shortly after, he pulled a semi-automatic gun from his wastband and shot himself.

    Witnesses say there was no time for anyone to intervene before he pulled the trigger. A police officer tried to perform CPR on the man but he died at the scene.

    No one else was hurt.

    Police say the man reportedly had marital problems and his wife worked at the store and was present at the time of the shooting.

    We're told the man is an Texas Department of Criminal Justice employee but his duties do not include carrying a weapon.

    Customers were evacuated and the store is closed while Conroe police continue their investigation.

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  11. Asking for permission from a warden is free.... Fighting with the state can cost you thousands of dollars. Most attorneys charge you $200 + an hour and it can take months, if not years to go to court. Unless you are independently wealthy, this is a bad idea.

    Having a CHL still makes you open to being targeted. You can not carry the firearm into a church, hospital, or establishment that receives 51% of its revenue from alcohol. This is why Texas laws need to be updated. Aside from a few CHL instructors who might lose business, no one else is really going to oppose it.

    Also an employee with a CHL can not use their own firearm in an official capacity due to the fact they don't qualify every year. With this law most TDCJ employees would be able to respond to escapes and other emergencies and use their own firearm just like most law enforcement do. With TDCJ's aging firearms, I would rather use my own. The old six shooters just don't work for me.

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  12. Hey Bullshitter. A premises is what it is. And it sure ain't no building.

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  13. Before I would back this bill I would have to see TDCJ increase their firearm training and stop allowing people to refire over and over again at inservice.

    As for the revolvers, there is a reason only certain positions like transportation are using the M&Ps, and this is because the Model 65 revolver is about as idiot proof as a gun can be. As long as shift supervisors use outside pickets as babysitting spots we need weapons with as few moving parts as possible.

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    1. Transportation where? I travel Tx highways several times a month transporting these offenders for 20 years and we don't have the M&P's. We still have 6 shooters and shot guns, they don't even cover nothing in inservice about the m&p's.
      Over the years TDCJ has really lost its vitality...when the agency gets its head out of its ass, and makes anyone that wants to supervise be a CO first before ever getting rank that would be a great start for change, instead of letting a person have rank because they earned a degree online. When the people with RANK get their heads out of their asses captains and above and do promotions FAIRLY. The supervisors that TDCD promotes these days would of never made it in the old days, they are sending officers who DONT have a clue about transporting offenders or what if, if something went down on that highway, and sending them over their trained transport officers because OH that's MY friend...what happens when your friend encounters a bad situation and dies, because you sent your friend instead of the trained person...TDCJ has certain people on cetain units I know , picked for transport jobs LIKE it should be, TDCJ needs a transport officer class of its on dealing with that only offenders transports, not just the small measly section we get in inservice. At least a week long class and certifications for only specific officers transporting, this would have ups and downs on units in emergency situations but i'd rather know the transport is safe and sound then know just any person in gray was sent...

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    2. correction on the word on * OWN

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  14. The bill would increase firearms training. It's a good bill and probably one of the only benefits you will see this session. If you don't want to undergo the training, it would allow you to opt out.

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  15. I would have to see the bill to really know if it increased firearms training. It would surprise me if TDCJ would spend the money, both on the ammo, and the training on carrying out in the world.

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  16. The bill calls for proficiency training. Since this is an employee firearm, they have to supply the ammo, and pay $30 for the course and certification.

    This bill was well planned and has taken everything into consideration. Remember the people who take CHL class aren't the smartest tools in the shed. The fact you can be fired for not adhering to safety rules would be another reason people would comply with safety rules. If you don't want to undergo the proficiency course, than opt out and go pay $200 for a CHL course with unknown people on the range.

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  17. Does anyone actually have a copy of the proposed bill?

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  18. Anonymous seems to be both asking and answering, what a trick.

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  19. Probably an Anti gun liberal... Hell even the most liberal states allow CO's to carry... California, New York, New Jersey... Gun control at its worst is when public sevants who are in harms way aren't allowed to carry. Texas is becoming more like Mexico where they allow organized criminals to carry all the guns they want. There are also some liberal law enforcement out there who seek to stop carry rights. I say if we can't carry, then they shouldn't either. Fair is fair. We come into contact with felons longer than they do and our actions against an inmate can result in set off of parole resulting in years added to a felon's stay. Remember law enforcement only deal with most felons for a few minutes. We deal with them for years and are subject to retaliation for anything.

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  20. Nope, not an anti-gun liberal. I have my CHL; I just know many of the people with which I work would be only one mistake away from giving TDCJ even more bad press if they were allowed to carry off duty. As for your examples of other states, go look at their hiring and training standards before comparing them to Texas.

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    1. I work for the feds. We have pretty high hiring standards, although the training standards are pure BS. And we have our share of clowns and retards.

      Back in 2004 the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act (LEOSA) or (HR 218) became law and we were obviously covered by it. The agency denied that we were covered by it despite the plain language of federal statutes, until the Attorney General of the United States issued an Opinion affirming that we were in fact covered by it.

      The reason that the agency opposed our being covered was for the very same reasons you oppose this bill. They just knew that the clowns & retards would tarnish the agency's reputation, as if the agency really needed any help with that.

      But it never happened. In 2010 my regional director, Bureau of Prisons North Central Regional Director Michael Nally visited my prison and commented on the impact of LEOSA. He stated that there had thus far been fewer off-duty misuses of firearms by BOP staff than there were when he was a police officer after every FOP function.



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  21. Your coworkers probably have a CHL too.. If not they can get one, so what is your point. Having worked in law enforce before, I will tell you, there are plenty of idiots in that profession too... I would not advacate to stop them from carrying. Public Safety Servants should have the right to carry. When was the last time a TDCJ officer misused a firearm against another on duty... I can't name one... Tx DPS just shot and killed two unarmed people from a helicopter who were just fleeing in a vehicle and possed no threat to human life. TDCJ has a better deadly use of force record than almost any major law enforcement agency. You should have the right to bear arms and protect yourself.

    As far as idiot goes, TDCJ needs to stop hiring them, along with DPS and all other Texas law enforcement agencies. Those provisions need to be included in a separate bill. This bill is about defending myself from becoming a target.

    Remember even with a CHL, thugs know you can't have your gun at church, Sea World, or going into Specs to pick up that bottle of wine for Valentines Day.

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    1. Cops in California shot up two women delivering newspapers and another innocent white male citizen because they thought Christopher Dorner was coming to get them.

      http://www.prisonofficer.org/todays-news/17465-clowns-shoot-em-up.html

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    2. You can I repeat CAN carry at church it is up to the clergy of that church to deny you fron carrying at their place of worship!

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    3. And you can carry at Specs, or any other liquor store. The rule is for ON SITE consumption (bars.)

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    4. You can argue with a DA on that one... I can only tell you what the Penal Code says. Don't worry the bill was watered down so CO's can't carry in 51% alcohol establishment (This makes it easier for gang members to target us at these places, plus alcohol and firearms don't go together). Also CHL instructors will be able to give the class too. I figured there would be CHL instructors opposing the bill if that wasn't put in place. So now there is no reason to oppose the bill... It's just a watered down CHL now thanks to some special interest. The bill is currently under Legislative Legal review and I will post a bill number soon.

      If you are a CHL instructor, you can now support the bill...

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    5. I don't have to argue with a DA because I KNOW what the code says.

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  22. I say since this issue was brought to light due to prison gangs, they'd should at min allow gang sgt's and gang officers to carry. I say that only because their the ones investigating gang members and their activities both in prison and in the free world. Most TDCJ staff deal with gang members on a daily basis and the gang members know that they have a job to do and will not retaliate against them for that. Now I know some are going to say bull crap regarding my suggestion, but that's my opinion. I'm a line officer and I've seen what the gang staff do and I know I couldn't do their job.

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  23. I hate to break the news to you, the officer killed in Juarez was just an El Paso County CO and not a Gang Sergeant. CO's are in the line of fire because they deal with them day in and day out, being at risk of offending gang members more. CO's have been targeted in other states who were not Gang Sergeants. The fact is anyone who enforces any rules or searches for contraband can be targeted by offenders. If your a CO and you are not finding gang information dring searches, you might consider another line of work. Gang investigations are not just brought on by your GI, but CO's doing day to day work.

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    1. we work in a prison, a place that is filled up with all types of gangs. None of us should have to be placed with our back against a wall in the FREEE world.
      We know what we want, we get it by going through the right persons in Austin at the capitol. Gangs are going to do what they want to do no matter what law we get passed. Some things would make it more safe for us and our families yes! but at the end of the day, if there is a hit on any of us its going to take place, know you own safety zones.

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  24. After researching this, it appears that there is no bill currently numbered. Which means the AFSCME might have either mislead us or they were mislead. So if you want to carry, go get your CHL.

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  25. Get your CHL anyway. It's the only thing that will protect you from the federal Gun Free School Zones Act, which makes it a felony to have a firearm within 1000 ft. of a school unless you are licensed to carry by the state the school is in.

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  26. FYI... The bill is in Legislative Legal Review right now. It is important a bill like this be reviewed prior to filing it. This step greatly improves the bill being passed into law. I will post a bill number when it's filed. The language will change from the model and has required input from law enforcement associations. It will be a solid piece prior to being filed.

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  27. That's why I enjoy being a sworn Texas peace officer...I am able to carry everywhere. The bill sounds solid to me.

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  28. The feds had a lieutenant murdered on his way home from work two days ago.

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  29. The bill was reviewed by several law enforcement associations and revised by the Legislative Council. This is what it is, a cheap CHL for only $25. HB 3271... It saves TDCJ employees a lot of money. I would like to thank Representative James White (R - Hillister).

    TDCJ employee lobby day will be March 21, 2013 starting at 9 AM in Austin.... Be there!!!! I will be looking to develop several free CHL courses for TDCJ employees throughout the state.

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  30. well so much for having any respect...

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  31. I tried, but the model bill was shot down and would have not passed with organizations opposing it... We have to take this one and expand it next session... Our biggest downfall is the fact TDCJ fails to adopt professional standards... The upper administration needs to modernize and push for increased standards, hiring practices, and better training (better funded too). The fact 17 former "guards" were indicted under RICO charges should send a strong message to the Board of Criminal Justice and upper admin that TDCJ needs to review their professional standards and the current status quo is not working.

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  32. Don't give up yet... The model bill was filed HB 3420... We will need a strong push on both these bills. One of these bills gives Security (that's includes everyone who handles a firearm) the right to carry.

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    1. I really don't think that we'll get anything, TDCJ will not pay for professionals. Therefore we're stuck having to go through the CHL process just to protect our family.

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  33. We can get it passed. CO's control 31 Texas House districts and make up the single largest employees group (PAC).

    Our biggest opponent is law enforcement organizations who think they are the only ones who can have carrying rights. These organizations need to realize that if they mess with us they will be playing under the same set of rules in a few years when more liberals take over. LE's have a higher rate of on duty misuse of firearms than we do. There is not a single documented misuse of an on duty firearm against another person for TDCJ... You can't say that about DPS who shot and killed two unarmed passengers from a moving helicopter a few months ago, or how about the Houston PD Officer who shot and killed the unarmed disabled man in a wheel chair... The list goes on and on.... Maybe LE's shouldn't have the right to carry off duty... I bet we can get that debate started in the Austin Liberal circles.

    We need to let LE organization know they will play by the same rules as us in the future if they try to oppose us. We face the same if not more danger off duty then most LE's face.... We spend more time with inmates they they spend with suspects, sometime years... There are numerous documented incidents where CO's have been retaliated against off duty... Last week a Federal CO in Puerto Rico was ambushed driving home on the freeway from work.

    Escapes are commonly higher around prisons... Duh!!! CO's live around prisons and are at places like hospitals where inmates may try to escape... We are sitting ducks at hospitals. Imagine an inmates tries to escape from Huntsville HMH and this bill passes, I doubt they would get very far if off duty CO's are allowed to carry under HB3420. CO's can respond directly to an escape if this bill passes, just like LE's can act on a crime if off duty.

    The fact is right now many CO's have CHL's and have acted responsibly... Yes we have idiots and so does LE... With greater responsibility, comes greater responsibility in hiring... Our upper admin is resisting this and they will be retiring soon. The newer admin needs to know they better back up their officers and stop hiring trash!!!! With our agency downsizing there will be more money for staff development and the newer admin needs to support that.

    It is discouraging to be told by politicians on both sides that our current admin is not backing us in Austin. We could have gotten rid of Brad and Bryan 4 years ago, but they were allowed to make it after offering a 20% pay raise in the LAR. The fact is all upper admin will be gone in two years, most of them at the end of session. We have some very capable CO's who can organize political action if the newer admin doesn't back us. Forums such as this show we are organized and can take action against unsupportive admin. Let's educate the newer officers about the importance of supporting better training, hiring standards, and political organizing. If upper admin messes with our organizing rights such as online social media, they will pay.... National Labor Relations Board has rules social media is protected speech. Remember a few months ago the Facebook incidents where admin was telling you not to use Facebook, that was Stupid. Now they can face a $10,000 a day fine from the NLRB.

    Don't give up so easily, we are stronger together than what you might think.

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  34. I agree. If law enforcement doesn't support us, they can lock their guns up in the armory at the end of their shift and live under the same conditions as honest citizens.

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  35. If you are a citizen of the United states you should not need a chl to protect yourself from danger ...... I carry all the time with out chl..... I'm going to be judged by 12 before I am carried by 6 ..... co's up hoes down

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